Madi Nolan: October 31st 2007 A Letter from Your Old Friends, Dr. Joel and Michelle Levey

To our Readers:

This is our seventh article on Madi Nolan.

Karma does exist! We received this explosive email from two people who have known Madi Nolan since the early 1980's. They are Dr. Joel and Michelle Levey.

To view their credentials, go to www.wisdomatwork.com

Then read carefully through the following:

Dear Friends,

Thank you for your note and questions about Madi Nolan
and her claims to qualifications as a teacher in the
Tibetan Buddhist tradition. Our intention in writing
this response to you, and others who may read this
note, is to offer insights and perspectives to inform
your discernment in choosing to study with Madi (or
with any other teachers). We are also writing in order
to protect the integrity of the Dharma and to prevent
it from being misrepresented in ways than could create
confusion in students’ minds, or lead to delusion and
distorted views. It is our sincere hearts’ prayer that
this letter be received in the way that will be for
the highest good of sentient beings and the Dharma.

Over the years we have been asked similar questions by
many people who have encountered Madi - who is a
colleague whom we have known for about 25 years. After
reading Madi's website and talking with people who
have encountered her, we must say that we have some
very serious concerns regarding the authenticity of
many/most of the claims she has made about her
history, training, "ordinations", status as a teacher
of Tibetan Buddhism and a "tulku" or "lama" in the
Tibetan tradition. If you are interested in more
details, we invite you to read further here.

We live in a time of when many sincere and dedicated
people are moved to seek out spiritual teachings and
teachers. As the diversity of teachers and teachings
in our communities have flourished, the need to be
discerning about those teachers and teachings becomes
ever more important. One reason for this is that
although sincere and well meaning, many people may not
yet have an adequate understanding or knowledge to
differentiate between authentic claims and those that
are fake or misrepresented.

Especially now, in an age of mail-order Ph.D.s,
ordinations, and self-proclaimed gurus, it's important
to check references and claims of teachers -
especially when they make claims to special powers,
secret teachings, privileges or access to teachings
that no other teachers have to offer. Though students
are sincere, they may simply lack the experience and
discernment to distinguish between authentic vs.
fraudulent or misleading claims. Appreciating this, we
are moved to offer the following comments and
perspectives.

Having studied and practiced intensively in the
Tibetan tradition (Joel for over 35 years now, and
Michelle for 25 years), we have been fortunate to
study in-depth with dozens of the most revered Tibetan
teachers from all the main lineages of the Tibetan
Buddhist and Bonpo traditions. We have been
authorized and blessed by many of these teachers to
teach and we have also studied extensively with a
number of highly respected Tibetan doctors. That
said, we write from a place that is well-informed and
experienced in these traditions, and it saddens us
whenever we encounter people who make false and
misleading claims regarding their experience or
affiliation with these precious and authentic wisdom
traditions.

It is in this context that we write now to express our
great sadness and concerns regarding what appear to be
false and deceptive claims made by Madi Nolan about
her training & background in Tibetan Buddhism. We
first met Madi Nolan in the early 80s and were, to our
understanding, the first people to actually introduce
her to her first encounter with a Tibetan lama. She
was likely in her 40s at the time, living south of
Seattle in Federal Way, and working with her physician
husband at the time, Tony. Madi was very interested in
healing and energy medicine and had an especially
strong interest in psychic powers. Though Madi was
interested in esoteric and spiritual teachings, our
extensive conversations with her showed no indication
that she had ever actually encountered any Tibetan
lamas or received any teachings from them. This leads
us to deeply question the claims she widely publishes
regarding her early childhood experiences and the
authorizations that she claims to have had within the
Tibetan tradition.

We actually had a fairly close relationships with Madi
and her husband, and Joel practiced as a visiting
clinician in their medical center. At dinner one night
with Madi and her husband Tony, we mentioned that we
were bringing one of our teachers (who had been the
abbot of Tibet's largest monastic university) to teach
for a couple of days in Seattle. Madi expressed great
excitement at having the opportunity to finally meet
her first Tibetan Lama. Keep in mind that Madi was
already in her 40s at that time. In preparation for
this first encounter we introduced Madi to some of the
most basic rituals, mantras, and prayers and it was
clear from her awkwardness that even these most basic
and widely known Tibetan practices were unknown by
her. Her excitement and naivete were heartwarming,
and she was very sincerely moved by this very brief
encounter and most grateful to have the opportunity to
meet a real Tibetan Lama.

In all the years we knew Madi and talked with her and
her husband about her childhood, background, training,
etc.- whether informally over dinner or professionally
at the clinic, she never for a moment indicated or
demonstrated having had any direct experiences related
to Tibetan culture, language or teachers. Therefore,
to now read the claims that she has published and uses
to promote herself makes us feel very sad for her and
concerned for the people who may be drawn to study
with her. Her previous descriptions of her childhood
and early years was quite unremarkable and certainly
did not include any mention of time living in Asia -
let alone having any association with Tibetan teachers
in India or Nepal.

Madi's self-promotion and the claims she is making
about her background are completely incongruent with
the life she described to us when she was a suburban
housewife with a small healing practice. Her claims
are also incongruent with the history she shared with
us, and many are glaringly inaccurate to anyone with a
knowledge of Tibetan Buddhist culture, spirituality,
and religion. For example, Madi claims to be offering
"secret self empowerment knowledge from the part of
Tibet known as Shangri La", however there is really no
such place in Tibet - and the word "Shangrila" is a
widely used western fictional literary creation not a
Tibetan word. In western literature it refers to a
mythical or extradimensional realm. While the Tibetans
do have a rich tradition related to a parallel
dimensional realm called “Shambhala” no Tibetan would
ever use the word "Shangrila" to refer to a place in
Tibet or to a body of teachings - the word simply
doesn't exist in the Tibetan language. A real Tibetan
teacher would use the authentic words and descriptors
and would not refer to this imaginary place from
Western popular literature as an actual place in
Tibet.

For Madi to make claims of being an "ordained Tibetan
Lama" is quite suspect to us. “Ordained” in the
Tibetan tradition specifically and strictly designates
someone who is a monastic, i.e., one who has taken on
the vows of a celibate, shaven-headed, monk or nun,
wearing monastic robes, observing hundreds of
precepts, and with a rigorous background of training.
From what we've heard from her students this does not
seem to be the case. Madi also claims to have grown up
in Monasteries - and monasteries are where male
children and monks are housed - not young girls or
women. The women and girls live in nunneries - not
monasteries. If she was affiliated with a monastic
community - she would be a nun (not a monk) with
extensive vows and disciplines that she'd be required
to observe if she were an ordained member of the
monastic community.

To our knowledge, Madi has not had the requisite
training or qualifications to offer the authentic
Tibetan "empowerments" and teachings that she claims
to be authorized to offer. Perhaps in the years since
we met Madi she has received some kind of blessing to
teach - but it honestly seems very unlikely that an
authentic teacher in the Tibetan lineages would do
that. (Note: There are some other self-proclaimed
"Lamas" in the West and the East who are known to be
quite liberal in "recognizing" others as "tulkus" and
giving endorsements that are quite questionable.)
Given our experience of Madi and her history as she
told it to us, there was virtually no indication that
she had had any such experience or authorization in
the first few decades of her life as she claims so
strongly in her advertising and biographical sketches.

Madi's claim to have been authorized as a "Tibetan
doctor" by the age of 18 is also highly suspect as the
course of training for Tibetan doctors is very long
and rigorous. While we know many Tibetan doctors and
teachers of Tibetan medicine, we have heard of
virtually no Westerners trained or authorized in the
Tibetan medical tradition in the years that Madi
claims to have lived in the East. To pursue this
course of study requires complete fluency in the
Tibetan language and requires memorization of all of
the classic medical texts. We have never heard of a
Tibetan - let alone a Westerner - who completed formal
training before they were 20 years old.

If Madi's lineage is authentic in the Tibetan Buddhist
tradition - then she would have a clear and extensive
lineage of authentic teachers - and her teachings
would be based within the Mahayana tradition that is
founded on the teachings of the Bodhisattva tradition
in which all practices that are engaged in are
practiced for the benefit of all sentient beings - and
never focused on one's own personal power, gain, fame,
or mundane benefit. These teachings would never be
used for personal gain, power, acquisition, or
self-centered pursuits. Having heard from others of
the nature of Madi's teachings, we are called to
seriously question if what she is teaching has
anything to do with the Tibetan Buddhist or monastic
traditions. This is cause for serious concern to us -
and should be for others who may attend her trainings.

On her website, Madi claims to be the only group
leader allowed to bring groups into Tibet to receive
special rituals at some of Tibet's largest monasteries
and to visit some of the special sacred sites. Such
claims are grossly over-inflated and false. Many
groups visit these monasteries and sacred sites and
receive blessings and teachings from the lamas there.
To set herself up as having special favor there seems
quite misleading and inappropriate to us.

The “Temple of Mystical Medicine” that Madi claims
affiliation with is cited only once on Google - and
that citation is for Madi's own personal website.
This "Temple" is supposedly connected with White
Cloud Monastery - which is described as a Chinese
Taoist Monastery in China - not a Tibetan Buddhist
Monastery in Tibet. A number of teachers in the West
claim to be offering Tibetan teachings that come from
Chinese lineages. Though these may have some
connection with Tibet they are often actually Taoist
and Chinese in origin rather than authentically
Tibetan or Buddhist. These traditions often emphasize
personal power, magic, mystical claims, and psychic
powers. Given the disruptions and corruptions in
Chinese history, many of these traditions lack a
rigorous grounding in authentic lineages and
traditions. >From our experience in studying with
dozens of the world's most respected Tibetan teachers,
you would never hear an authentic Tibetan Buddhist
teacher proclaiming that they were teaching about such
subjects which are generally considered dangerous
diversions from the goal of the Buddhist path which
emphasizes the cultivation of wisdom regarding the
true nature of reality, compassion based on that
wisdom, and altruism.

While it's possible that in the years since we first
knew Madi, that she may well have received teachings
in this Taoist or Chinese tradition, but from our
extensive experience in the Tibetan traditions that
she claims a connection with - and from our experience
in knowing Madi and introducing her to her first
Tibetan teacher - we encourage people to seriously
question her claims regarding her history,
qualifications, authorizations, and special powers.
These all seem quite incongruous from our experience
of Madi in her mid-life as a suburban housewife, with
an interest in psychic powers and energy healing.

There's a Tibetan story about miracles experienced by
a woman who worshiped a dog's tooth thinking that it
was a tooth of the Buddha. In that case the benefit
had more to do with the sincerity and devotion of the
disciple - rather than the actual source of the
blessing/teachings. In Madi Nolan's case, perhaps
there is some benefit to be gained in what she has to
teach, but what she is teaching does not appear to be
authentically grounded in the traditions she
self-proclaims herself to have lineage or
transmissions in, and that is a serious matter.

There is a danger that people with sincere interest in
learning more about the precious and profound
teachings of the Tibetan Buddhist tradition will be
mislead by Madi's claims and teachings. When or if
these people have the good fortune to meet real
teachers who share the long lineages of authentic
Tibetan wisdom teachings, it's likely that confusion
will arise in their minds that is an obstacle to their
receiving the actual teachings, and to knowing how to
hold those properly without being contaminated by the
confusions and distortions that come from inauthentic
teachings.

Comparing our actual experience with Madi over the
years, together with her current claims and the
descriptions and concerns expressed to us by people
who have encountered her, we are left to wonder if she
is intentionally misleading people or is
well-intentioned but suffering from delusions. For
anyone with knowledge and experience in the authentic
Tibetan teachings and lineages of teachers, there are
many glaring discrepencies and inaccuracies in the
biographies that she has published on the web.

Having been very active in the community of Dharma
teachers and teachings in the Tibetan tradition in
Seattle, the West Coast, and around the U.S., we have
never seen Madi at any meetings of Dharma teachers or
at any teaching offered by any other lamas, other than
the one case we mentioned above, over the past 35
years. Madi's absence from such gatherings would
appear quite strange if she were truly recognized and
well-regarded in these traditions.

In this day and age, we strongly encourage anyone
interested in receiving teachings from any teacher to
inquire deeply into their background, training,
lineage, and authenticity in relationship to the
traditions that they claim to represent.
Unfortunately, there are many "false gurus" these days
who make claims of lineages that are untrue. The
reasons for such deceptions vary from person to
person, but create dangers both for the student and
for the teachers themselves. There is also a wealth of
literature widely read and distributed in the Western
press that claims to convey Tibetan wisdom, but which,
upon examination, lacks any real grounding in those
teachings and traditions.

In keeping with the instructions of the Lamas we have
studied with, if Madi is offering authentic teachings,
she should then acknowledge the lineages and sources
of those teachings she offers. If the teachings she is
offering come from other sources - Chinese, Taoist -
or from her own creative imagination or revelation,
then we believe that Madi should acknowledge those as
her sources and not create confusion in the minds of
people she is promoting her work to. For a "spiritual
teacher" to make false or exaggerated claims not only
can create confusion and harm for their students, but
for the "teachers" themselves.

For students interested in learning more about the
various authentic lineages of Tibetan Buddhist and
Bonpo teachers, as well as authentic literature that
truly does come to us through reliable lineages of the
Tibetan wisdom traditions, we encourage people to
visit:

http://www.snowlionpub.com/
which publishes an excellent newsletter with articles
and teacher schedules for many of the most respected
and authentic Tibetan teachers.

See also: http://www.wisdompubs.org/ for other good
sources of Tibetan wisdom teachings.

And http://www.savetibet.org/news/links.php for a rich
list of websites with information on Tibet and Tibetan
culture.

You may notice that many of the sources commonly
referred to in some Western "New Age" and esoteric
traditions which claim Tibetan connections will not be
found in the sources that are referred to on these
credible and reliable sites. This insight can help us
to discern our "myths" about Tibet, Tibetan teachers
and teachings from the actual reality of them.

In closing this note, please know that we have called
Madi repeatedly to talk with her about these concerns.
While she seemed very happy to hear from us in our
initial call, she said that she couldn't talk at that
time and that she would call us back. Despite our
repeated calls she has not chosen to return our calls.

We offer these reflections with the utmost respect for
the many authentic teachers of the Tibetan tradition
who have devoted themselves to preserving the
integrity of these teachings as they bring them to us
in the West. We believe that it is essential that the
integrity of these precious and authentic teachings
not be compromised or confused. In that spirit, we
offer this response to the questions and concerns of
the sincere students who contacted us with the hope
that these notes will lead anyone who reads them to be
more discerning, and to question and test the
authenticity and teachings of their teachers, and not
be mislead by unsubstantiated or over-inflated claims.

To the degree that this information is accurate and
useful, may it be taken to heart and widely shared
with others who may find this helpful. To the degree
that this is not useful or is inaccurate, may the
imprints of having read this simply vanish from your
mind like a handprint on water.

May we all be blessed to meet and study with reliable
teachers of the Dharma. May these precious teachings
flourish in our lives and in our world, and lead us
all to awaken more fully to the deepest Wisdom and
Compassion for all beings )))

Dr. Joel & Michelle Levey
10/26/2007 Seattle

Madi Nolan

I appreciate reading viewpoints from different people on the subject of Madi Nolan.

From this and all the other posts it seems like there is a heavy fixation / concern regarding: Lineage and formal training within the Tibetan Buddhist structure.

So I can certainly understand why anyone would want to "defend" the integrity of that structure by assuring accurate claims, degrees, and empowerments by recognized leaders, with the intent of protecting students. That is perfectly fine. However, it is also a rigid and rules oriented paradigm of viewing spiritual truth.

Some of the greatest spiritual teachers on Earth who have profound, positive impacts on peoples lives have no "formal" lineage or degrees to show for it.

For example, in the Hindu tradition let's look at Ammachi, the infamous hugging saint from India. This woman had no formal Guru to speak of. She had no formal education, no degrees etc. In fact, many things she did were contrary to some Hindu traditions, particularly the act of "hugging people." Yet she fully realized the self and has a profound impact on millions of people worldwide. People have positive, life changing spiritual experiences in her presence. And she is the instigator of massive humanitarian projects around the globe which uplift people from poverty and suffering. I would never even think to ask Amma "can I see your degree?" She doesn't have one and who cares anyway?

My point here is this: Every spiritually-seeking student has to be able to discern for themselves whether or not a given teacher is a help or hinderance to their own spiritual growth. For me, degrees, structure and rules mean absolutely nothing because we can't quantify everything spiritual within the Earthly realm. I believe that is impossible.

As for Madi Nolan, I am not a student of hers, so I can't really comment on whether or not she has a genuine gift to help people improve their lives. I am also not Buddhist, so I don't really understand the obsessive preoccupaiton with degrees and lineages. AND, I've never once in my life asked any doctor of mine to show me their degree. I don't judge the world by paper documents. I prefer to look at the example of excellence it either does or does not display. And I decide from the knowingness of "truth" deep within myself.

Anyhow, If Madi is not who she claims to be.... then perhaps your issue is just a marketing one. Maybe some people were helped or healed by her techniques? I don't really know personally, because again, I'm not her student. However, I've met many other people who claim to have been greatly helped my Madi in numerous ways.

Personally, I don't invest too much importance in surface marketing anyhow. I like to look deeper at my actual experience of any given teacher. I mean honestly...... I've gone to see the Dalai Lama before and felt absolutely nothing. Yes, he is a great teacher and is obviously who he claims to be, just not a teacher for me, at this time.

Likewise, it is not for you to judge whether Madi Nolan is an appropriate teacher for any given individual, at any given time. Maybe you could just suggest to her to change her marketing and leave it at that. Because really, I can't figure out what your issue it beyond that.

Change her marketing?

This is from Harold.

Change her "MARKETING". Did you actual read and understand what Joel and Michelle were saying. Madi claims about her past have be exposed for that they are a lie.

Yes she could change her marketing to tell the TRUTH about her entire life. She is selling herself to the public and has earned tens of thousands of dollars at lectures and seminars by claiming a childhood tale that is a total lie.

If you don't have issues with criminal activity then what do you have issues with? Obviously not fake teachers and con artists.

I should point out to you and the readers that Madi Nolan's ex-husband who was cited in the above piece also confirms what Dr. Joel and Michelle Levey wrote.

In all their years of marriage Madi never once spoke of her life in India and Nepal. Never once during their marriage did she tell him that she was a Doctor of Tibetan Medicine even though he was a Doctor of Medicine and a Surgeon. Not once did she ever tell him about her being and ordained Lama. WHY NOT!!!

Why did she not tell Dr Joel and Michelle Levey anything about her past as a Doctor of Tibetan Medicine and as an ordained Lama. She knew they practiced Tibetan Buddhism and that Joel Levey was also a Doctor. WHY NOT!!

Why have you omitted any comments on these details in your response. Is it just a MARKETING problem.

I would like to hear your comments about the obvious totally different accounts of what Madi Nolan says about her past and what others who knew her have said. Your silence in that regard does truly interest me. A comment or two please, if you don"t mind.

As a former federal agent I knew it was not up to me to JUDGE another person. It was up to a Federal Judge to do that after I presented my evidence.

Where is Madi Nolan in all this. Missing in Action.

For more please read, Madi Nolan; Is it a crime in Washington State to ....?

Madi Nolan

One thing I forgot to add to my post above regarding professional "degrees."

Throughout my life I've visited hospitals and medical groups and been greatly, GREATLY harmed by Western Doctors. I can safely assume they had medical degrees, otherwise the hospital wouldn't even hire them. Likewise, I've been greatly harmed in negative ways by well-meaning dentists and optometrists who were rigorously trained within their respective professions.

Recently,in my home town, a local psychiatrist shot his wife and then commited suicide. All his colleagues thought he was a great psychiatrist before that. He treated a lot of people with suicidal tendencies, but apparently..... it was a sham. He couldn't even keep from killing himself. They say he really did have a PhD

So why should be blindly trust formal training & paper degrees anyhow? I've learned they mean very little.

Madi has presented no Degrees, Diplomas , NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is written by Harold.

Madi Nolan claims that the White Cloud Monastery selected her as their representative and teacher of "TIME TRAVEL". Where and when did his happen? Will she provided any documentary proof of this great honor?

Madi Nolan claims to have completed in 1 & 1/2 years the Masters Program in White Healing Lotus at this same Monastery. In what years did she start and finish this "Masters Program"? Will she show us her graduation diploma?

On October 29,2007 I formally contacted the Chinese Consule General's office in Toronto requesting them to investigate and verify these claims.

Madi Nolan claims that she was given permission by the Abbot of the monastery in Shangri La to teach the "Tibetan Red Egg Cure". Where exactly in Tibet is this magical monastery, what is its full name, address and what Tibetan Buddist sect does it follow? When exactly did she receive this permission and does she have a letter or other document to prove this claim?

So why would you blindly trust someone who will not provide any proof that they are a Doctor of Tibetan Medicine, an ordained lama, a tulku, a representative and teacher of the White Lotus Monastery or an authorized teacher of the Shangri-la Monastery in Tibet?

If as you claim to be on your own "PATH" that path starts and ends with truth and honesty and moral integrity. Anything else is a lie.

Madi Nolan:Strip Away the Fakery

Shakti Deva, if that is your real name, I'd like to respond to your response.

Why do people make such a big issue of lineage claims in the Tibetan Buddhist system of learning and acknowledgement of attainment? A fine exposition of this is given in the first chapter of Mingyur Rinpoche's new book, The Joy of Living.

But a simple explanation: the Buddhist masters of old, including His Holiness the Gyalwang Karmapa "whisper" to only a handful of students the keys to the real teachings. These students,carefully prepared for years, accept these teachings and on the basis of those find the next Karmapa, test the candidate for authenticity, and teach a handful of their students the authentic teachings.

Everything in Tibetan Buddhism depends upon the purity of the lineage teachers and their students.
Nothing else is as important!

Every Tibetan teacher as noted elsewhere begins every talk, class, empowerment with homage to those teachers and that lineage which supports that person in the present moment.

Period. This is how it is done. Fakes and quakes can quickly be sorted out by their ignorance of or failure to include this aspect of the teachings.

Does Madi Nolan want to teach? Alright, no fight.
Is Madi Nolan a good teacher for some people? That is also possible within the known universe. What she is not is a Reincarnated Tibetan Lama.

Pure and simple.

Our desire has been to alert people to the lies which are evident at the very beginning of the Madi Nolan experience: if people wish to continue, may they do so.

Deciding, as you mention is your preferred way, by the "knowingness of the truth deep within myself" is a fine thing to do. Unfortunately it is lopsided. If you have used only this experience of the truth deep within you to choose physicians, dentists, opthamologists, that may be why you have met with such an unfortunate series of experiences at their hands!

As for marketing, consider this: if a car mechanic portrays himself as a dentist (but my truth deep within tells me this is a good person to get dentistry from)I may end up high on a hydraulic lift, waiting to have my wisdom teeth rotated!

From this simple example we can see why testing, asking questions, searching for the right person is so important.

We are not judging Madi Nolan as a teacher. We are making clear to people she is not who she claims to be. If it is as you suggest a marketing problem, perhaps Madi Nolan would drop all the pretenses, all the claims to knowledge and wisdom, to processes of "helping" people, to all potential for increasing their health indicated by her assertion she is a Tibetan Doctor, drop all the claims to know secret Tibetan doctrines springing from a fake school called Tibetan Riders of the Light, in other words, strip all the pretenses away.

Let Madi Nolan come out into the public and teach from who and what she truly is. That is the way of any path toward greater spiritual understanding.